Can You Still Fight City Hall And Win?

I would think of contacting a councilperson or another similar official – I would go elected official’s office. Handwritten letter or in person visit seem more effective to me. All the better if you could get support from your neighbors. An op-ed piece in a local paper, see if there are any groups you can think of in your area that would be likely to support the cause.

I would suggest being prepared to answer questions like what if no one paid, why should only some households pay, how would the trash company know that trash should not be picked up from a non-paying address, etc

I don’t know a lot about credit card disputing charges, but I think this might be a little too philosophical for that.

Karmella

Thanks so much for your advice.

You’re right, and I am in the process of trying to find exactly who the right person is to direct my dissatisfaction.

Also, I just found out that I’ll be billed in one lump sum for servcies through the year 2011!

Wonderful, isn’t it?

We are also facing the mandatory garbage pick-up in our county in California. Am hoping that I will be able to learn from your experience, when they bring it up again up.

As far as I know only large apartment complexes are the residential areas excepted from city garbage collection (out here), and they have to pay for a company to do it for them anyways.

I can see some arguments from the public health perspective for it, I’d rather everyone have trash collected than someone’s house becoming a health hazard for the entire neighborhood because they don’t have the means to dispose of it. It’s likely (what with this recession and all) that they’re passing along the costs because it was that or cut some sort of school/fire/police service.

Ok side issue: The argument from tradition (“It was free when I was a kid”) is a logical fallacy, just because it’s always been one way doesn’t imply whether it was good or not. The record with pollution back then wasn’t all that stellar cough*charles river*. /peeve /hippy

So here’s the question, do you have any alternate means of disposal, e.g. is there a dump/landfill you can cart your waste to (or did the county close that too?), or can you incinerate/compost/recycle your trash? If you can say that you’re able to dispose of your trash properly, then it makes a better argument.

Over here there’s something similar with sewer. Either you need to be connected to the city system or have a septic system installed. And if the city decides an area becomes populated enough to hook up to the sewer system, all the connected houses have to pay an initial connection fee (added to the property taxes over the next several years). I don’t think you can refuse to be connected given that part of reason was that there were a critical mass of people there to make it worthwhile. So if half refused it’d make it prohibitively expense for either the city or the other property owners. Similarly trash collection needs volume to be profitable to the company. The way your leaders probably see it is as a public good for the whole county, not a neighborhood by neighborhood issue.

If you are concerned about the charge being a burden to some, ask them to at least put in financial hardship exemptions from the fee (if they’re any good at their job it should already be there).

So regarding the legality of it, it’s legal if they passed the bill and it doesn’t conflict with any higher legislation. If you want to fight for just yourself, I’d look at exceptions in the actual piece of legislation and see if you can fit into those categories. Otherwise try collectively hiring a lawyer to see if she thinks you can fight the law, but it’s doubtful as counties and states have less restrictions on the laws they can make than Congress does.

Though I’m betting even if you do win, the response would likely just be to raise property taxes (or whatever tax is associated with garbage pickup), or cut services elsewhere (budgets don’t balance themselves). In the last city I lived in, they charged you by selling special trash bags for a buck a piece. So if you made a lot of trash you paid more (recycling bins were picked up free).

I bought a house in October 2009 using the $8k first time home buyer credit. The purchase price of my house also included personal property that I negotiated to get from the seller.

Through a clerical error, the value of the personal property was never reported on any official form. 2009 Property taxes were due in December/January following the purchase price on the home and I was responsible for paying the full amount of all of the 2009 calendar year even though I only lived there for 2.5 months…which was fair…except the taxes were based on a value 26% higher than my purchase price (determined by the assessor in April of 2009). It was not something I could legally challenge.

Fast forward a few months to around spring 2010. The new assessment from the tax man is given to me. Guess what? It’s STILL 15% higher than my purchase price.

I challenged the assessor and he decided against me. I appealed to the Board of Review. I spent HOURS upon HOURS preparing. I researched data on all 55 homes on my block. I found that everybody else saw a 10% decrase in their value but I was the only one with a 14% increase. I was sure the Board of Review would agree with me, and if not, at least partially agree. They did not. They did not throw me one bone. Their position is that all my prep work, facts, figures, documents, etc was not evidence to prove the assessor wrong because the assesor had a model that determined my house was worth more than what I paid for it.

Q: What if nobody paid?
A: Then nobody would get the service.

Q: What if only some pay?
A: Then only some would get the service.

Q: How would the trash company know which trash should not be picked up?
A: The same way the newspaper company does it. Only subscribers get the paper. Non subscribers don’t.

Questions for you to ask them…

What is so terrible about me having a choice in who my garbage disposal company is?

What gives you the right to take away my freedom to make choices as an educated consumer?

What right do you have to force me to buy a service I do not want or need?

Mike

Excellent excellent points–I will incorporate them into my fight.

Thanks!!!

Ellen

If I had more time I can assure you that I would start a grassroots effort to fight this thing (i.e. peition, something of that nature).

Unfortunately, time doesn’t allow it.

Great, well-thought out argument.

Especially the hardship exemption.

I plan on mentioning that.

Thanks a lot!!!

Mike

That is an absolute bunch of crap. What happened to you, that is.

We elect these fools, don’t we??

Shouldn’t they be fighting FOR us, instead of doing their best to stick it to us?

Your story has soured me a little, but at least now I am prepared for the worst.

Thanks for weighing in

Actually, no – the City Assessor is an unelected employee of the city. The Board of Review is a group of members that were appointed to their positions, not elected.

They do not represent us, the little people. They represent who ever they think will help themselves the most – not the people they are supposed to represent.

I would literally physically show up at City Hall and talk to everyone there. You should be able to get some answers that way. And you may even find the person that holds the power to help you solve the problem. You may try contacting the State Attorney General’s office too. And if you’ve got any lawyer friends, I’d talk to them and get their ideas. And try Googling your dilemma to see what other’s have tried. Good luck. I hope you get it. I really hate that sort of thing, so I’m on your side.

Oh, and I forgot to add that I wouldn’t charge it to your credit card and then dispute it. That’s deceptive, so very uncool.

I know in my neighborhood, people choose whatever company they want to pick up their garbage or no company at all, so either the city/county, a private company, or do-it-yourself, so you’ll see different garbage bins on our streets or none at all at some homes.

Mike,

Sounds like you may have found out that little tidbit the hard way. I myself am also finding out a lot of this the hard way as well.
And you are right on point, these people represent their own self-interests, plain and simple.

Victoria:

That’s definitely an option, although I think this decision was governed by the county that I live in and not the city, so I’ll have to look into it to see where is the best place to go.

But you’ve offered up some great options–I really apppreciate it!

Vicotira:

You’re abosultey right, and I do not plan on doing that. That thought just crossed my mind when I was at my maddest!

Well i totally feel for you, my hearing with my city is on July 20th for the same thing, If you came up with any good ideas please let me know, cause this is ridiculous. Where does a local government decide what services we need. What are they gonna do next tell us where to grocery shop and what doctor we should go to. Uh oh, I hope I didn’t just stumble upon something……

Charlie

Everything I’ve tried so far has fallen on deaf ears.

It was “passed” is all I get. And they make no exceptions.

The only other thing I can think of at this point is to contact a lawyer and see if he wants to dig into it on a pro bono type basis

Keep me posted on how your deal turns out…and sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

going through the same thing right now.the town i live in has decieded that i need to have the trash service that i have’nt had for 10 years.i trying to find a solution.i think the solution lies in the difference between essential service such as police ,fire and water.trash service is not essential.what if the town decided to furnish dsl or telephone service(some apt buildings do).you don’t have to buy the service,but if you do want telephone service you have to buy it from them.stay in touch and let me know if you find a solution.seems a violation of my civil rights or at least my civil freedom

Hey there

I definitely thought it was a violation of my civil rights as well, I just couldn’t get anybody to listen to me.

So here I am, stuck paying for a service that I neither need or want.

Good luck to you with your situation, though, and thanks for commenting!

Thank You Very Much for Your Insight. The situation I am up against is a little different though. My Mother’s sewer is screwed up. We have for many years just sumped it which costs us around $300 and never ever had a problem passing site inspections. However, to reroute the septic tank and get a permit costs us $5,000 which we don’t have since I am unemployed with nothing coming in and she is only making $8.35 an hour part time and is on using her benefits from her other company to try to support both of us while I am in college and looking for an internship. The whole reason the site inspector came to our property in the first place was to inspect our new well that just got fixed. The BOSS did not do the job he was payed to do! In the process, she saw that we had a problem with our sewer. My mother said she’d sump it because that was all she could afford. The site inspector said that would be good enough to pass the inspection. But then my mother received a notice from lake county and the receptionist she talked to on the 1-800 number had an attitude and told her she had to be out the $5,000 for the rerouting of the septic tank and the permit. So the most helpful information you gave me in this case was that they can pay for all or most of the expense via tax payers property taxes and failing that, they can give me financial hardship exemptions for the fee. What do you think?

Hope – I think you should threaten to sue them for violating your 4th amendment rights. They inspected something without permission or a court ordered warrant.

Hope and Tommy

Man Hope, that’s a tough one!

I’m with Tommy, sue ‘em!!!

Thanks for joining in!!!

Hi, I have the same problem about a year or two age we had recycle pick up free. The Village of Vernon Hills decided they can’t pay for it any more and put it to the tax payers. It was made mandatory that the households will bare the cost of the recycling pickup. I called the Village and didn’t get anywhere. I called Veolia Service and the told me if I refused to pay for the service of recycling my trash service would stop too. Even though I would continue to pay for trash pickup. I told them it was unconstitutional what they are doing. What give them the right. I I told them I recycle and I get the cash for my recycling and your taking the money right out of my hands. I’m not working and I try cutting back to save. I not getting anywhere either add me to your list. Why should I have to pay let alone give them and pay them for money I can pay other bills with? Help put me on your list to fight. This is totally wrong. As far as the one question . How will the trash pick up know if no to pick up the recycling take their recycling can back. When my children were little had a lot more trash . There are only the two of us pickup only once a week from two . We don’t make as much as we use to . I’m on your side.