Dating Etiquette and Rules for Women – First & Second Dates

dinner date couple womanIt’s been a great night of drinks, dinner, and conversation, but the evening is coming to a close as the bill is finally brought to the table. Questions start to flood your mind: Do I offer to pay? Did I do everything I could have to impress my date? Will there be a second date?

Dates can be stressful, especially first dates, but by following some dating etiquette, a woman can relax and enjoy the experience. Here are some guidelines to help you handle awkward situations involving the bill, and some other general dating advice for women.

How to Handle the Financial Aspect of Dating

Who should pay the bill when you go out on a date? What can you order on the date? It all depends on how long you’ve been dating, and how far you are into the relationship. The financial aspect of dating is much different for a first date, for example, than it is for a fourth or fifth date.

First Dates

Most men will pay for first dates, but some won’t pay or expect the woman to pay for her share. Here is some advice for a woman going on a first date:

  1. Go Prepared. Even if the man asked you out by offering to pay for your dinner, bring enough money to pay. The man may forget his wallet, or be unable to fully cover the bill. Perhaps he intended to split the bill from the beginning. Or maybe the date just doesn’t go well, and he no longer wants to pay for your share. With so many possibilities, it’s a good idea to carry cash with you and be prepared to take care of the bill if necessary.
  2. Be Considerate of What You Order. A first date is not the time to order the most expensive item on the menu, or to order multiple courses and pricey drinks. By the end of the date, you may quickly decide that the guy is not right for you. It would be inappropriate to let him know you are not interested, after he just spent half his paycheck on you.
  3. Be Mindful of the Restaurant You Pick. If the man asks you to pick the restaurant, choose a moderately-priced restaurant or find restaurant discounts and coupons. Don’t select an expensive restaurant, and don’t ask to go to a fast food restaurant, either. You do not want the man to have to pay for an expensive dinner, and you do not want to insult him by selecting a cheap restaurant.
  4. Subtly Offer to Pay. While most men will pay, it is important to make sure that the man knows you did not just go on the date for a free dinner. Some men will be insulted if you offer to pay, so you need to subtly hint that you are willing to pay. For instance, when the check comes to the table, reach for your purse. Chances are that the man will tell you not to worry about it as he reaches for his wallet. Just thank him, and let him know that you appreciate his gesture. If he doesn’t stop you, don’t be offended. Simply offer to split the bill, which is fair.

Subsequent Dates

Ladies, after you have been on your first date or two with a man, the rules change a little. Do not expect the man to continue to pay for nice dinners and evenings out, even though some men will still pay. Here is some advice as your dating relationship gets more serious:

  1. Continue to Offer to Pay. You always want to arrive prepared, and if this is your second, third, or fourth date, the man may or may not allow you to pay, but at least you have shown that you are willing. It all depends on his belief system, how he was raised, and his current financial situation. If you find out that your personal belief system about how men and women should split the bills on dates doesn’t match with his, perhaps this is where the relationship ends.
  2. Communicate. If you continue to date this gentleman, there may be a time when you feel it is right to discuss the financial aspect of dates. A conversation about how bills are split on dates helps both of you to understand what to expect. If this is going to be a lasting relationship, this may be the first of many difficult conversations about finances, and it is important to open the lines of communication from the very beginning.
  3. Do What Works as a Couple. In this modern era of working women, there are a lot more options when it comes to paying for a date. Essentially, it’s about what works best for each individual couple. Perhaps you decide to take turns paying, or perhaps the man decides he always wants to pay. The key is to communicate about money, so that there are no hard feelings.
dating woman wine

General Dating Etiquette for Women

Although the financial aspect of dating has changed drastically in recent decades, it is just one aspect of dating etiquette. Here is some more general etiquette advice for women going out on dates:

  1. Give Him a Chance. You may have had a long week at work, and you may be tired of the dating scene, but if you have agreed to go out on a date, you need to put your best foot forward. The man you are going out with may have been looking forward to this date all week, and perhaps had to step out of his comfort zone to ask you out. Have a good attitude and an open mind while you are on the date.  You could end up having the night of your life.
  2. Dress to Impress. You may not feel like dressing up or trying to impress your date, but he may be expecting more than jeans and an old t-shirt. If a man is buying you a nice dinner or dressing up for you, show your appreciation by freshening up before you go on your date. It is a nice gesture, especially since men really enjoy seeing the woman they are taking out all dressed up.
  3. Arrive on Time. Unfortunately, women are known for being late. Show your date respect by arriving on time. If you know you will be running behind, call ahead to let your date know. That way, he is not wondering if you have bailed.
  4. Don’t Talk About Old Relationships. There is no bigger turnoff than a woman talking about her old boyfriends. If you say something positive about an old boyfriend, it shows that you admire him and may still have feelings for him. On the other hand, if you say something negative, how does your date know that you won’t do the same to him?
  5. Don’t Dominate the Conversation. Another turnoff is when someone dominates the conversation, so make sure you give the man a chance to talk about himself. That is also the only way you will get to know him.
  6. Don’t Talk About Marriage or Children. If you talk about marriage or children, you may come off as too desperate, and it may scare your date away. Show your date some respect by avoiding a pushy subject, such as marriage, too early in your relationship.
  7. Don’t Drink Too Much. First of all, if the man is paying, he will pay for all your drinks, which will quickly add up on the bill. Secondly, you don’t want to come off as though you have a drinking problem, which may be a red flag for the man. Most importantly, you need to make sure you are thinking straight. If you are out on a first date with a man you do not know, you do not want to make yourself vulnerable by having too much to drink.
  8. Be Interested in Him. You may not find his profession as an accountant or computer programmer riveting, but make eye contact and show him that you are interested in what he has to say. Hopefully he will show the same respect for you.
  9. Don’t Play Games. It takes courage for a man to step out of his comfort zone and ask out a woman, so be honest and straightforward with him. Don’t play games by acting as though you are interested in him, or not interested in him.
  10. Don’t Chase Him. Don’t rush the relationship or try to move along the relationship at an uncomfortable pace. Let the man be the pursuer, and wait for him to contact you. Women are sometimes ready to express their feelings much earlier in their relationships than men are, so don’t pressure him to express his feelings prematurely.
  11. Be Honest. Don’t give the guy the runaround if you know it is not going to work out, and don’t avoid the subject of a second date if you need to tell him that you won’t be going on one. Be honest, and do it at the end of the first date or soon after. That way, he doesn’t get his hopes up and expect a second date.
  12. End the Date if Necessary. If the date is going on too long, and you are ready to go home, it’s okay if you end the date. Just say that you are ready to call it a night. If you do not plan on going on a second date, don’t hint that a second date is a possibility. There is no reason to carry on the date through coffee and dessert if it is miserable and not going anywhere. Your date may appreciate your honesty, and the end to a rough night.

Final Word

The most important piece of dating etiquette for a woman is to be respectful of the man you are dating. Be respectful of how you treat him, and be respectful of his wallet if he is paying. If you respect him, he will respect you, and hopefully that will lead to a long and happy relationship together, lasting much longer than a few dinner dates!

What are your thoughts on dating etiquette for women?  Should women pay for dinner on the first date?

  • mbh

    Really? “Men can be as confusing as women”? What a ridiculously sexist post this is. Way to lose this female reader once and for all.

    • Stephan

      i hope your kiding mbh, I didnt see a single amount of sexism in that post. It was a general statement about how neither sex understands the other. get off your high horse

      • Varis

        I paid for all the dates when I was with my gf then now wife. After marriage, I am still expected to pay for everything, including going out. Now I am unemployed the expectations still haven’t changed.
        As man, I think I have the short end of the deal. Or rather, I am with someone that doesnt love me, or just pretends to love me.

        • Joanna Crain


          You are surely in a very difficult situation. Being the one who pays for everything can be really tough, especially if you don’t have money coming in. Sometimes we hold on to old fashioned beliefs like “the man is supposed to pay” and even in our modern world it is hard for those who learned this from a young age to let go of.

          Talking money with your spouse can be a really hard thing to do, but if you are both willing, it can help you see why the other believes as they do and recognizing these deep-seated beliefs can be a catalyst for change. But even then it isn’t easy.


        • lily

          I am always prepared on dates no matter what. I always offered to pay for the food I ordered. If te man insist, I offer to pay the tips.
          Both of you agreed to meet whether your expectations are met or not. It’s just good manners.

      • Joanna Crain


        Thanks for you reply!


    • Joanna Crain


      My intention in writing this post was not to present a sexist viewpoint. I was attempting to give a platform to a very common issue that is difficult at best for both sexes. It is no secret that for men and women alike it can be confusing when it comes to relating to the opposite sex. Could I have chosen different words to better reflect what I was trying to get across? Perhaps. Hope you change your mind and continue to be a Money Crasher reader.


  • Craig

    It’s a tough call but a guy should pay for the first date or two always a woman should always have the respect to at least ask.

    • Joanna Crain


      Thanks for your comment. It is a tough call and a common issue that won’t be resolved anytime soon. But at least we can try to get a dialogue going between the sexes and make it a bit easier on everyone.


  • Woman

    There is no confusion. A man always pays.

    • yes

      The only men I know of who will always pay is if they are players and are not stuck in a relationship. I tell men that it is not good to always pay because there is always another one around the corner. This means that if guy A takes a girl out and pays for a Meal on Friday for the first time, Guy B (who asked before guy A) could take her out the next night (Sat). Now, what if she agrees with guy A for another date for the next week, even if she has not had the date with Guy B could lead to more stress. There was one blog (can’t remember what it was) where a man said it is better to dutch on a few dates then if it looks like it can go into a real dating situation then a man can start paying for a few dates, then after that dutching can be discussed.

  • joe carrar

    Women do no hold onto “old fashioned beliefs” like the man “is always supposed to pay”. Maybe the woman in question is just plain old CHEAP and selfish.

  • Daniel

    Wow, I never actually had a problem with this. I just ask when the check comes “Do you mind if I get this?”, don’t worry about it and make it into a big deal, and it really isn’t…

  • Alexandra Cean

    1.Women are not ‘known for being late’. Yeah right, men are late just as often. Generalizations are useless, especially one that is hardly accurate.

    3. ‘Let the man be the pursuer, and wait for him to contact you’. This is ridiculous and dated advice. I will never date a man who thinks this way. It’s appropriate for either party to contact.

    I think that it’s considerate to pay for your own food on the first date. If both parties are in a similar financial situation it’s great to pay every other date.

    • Casey Slide


      You are absolutely right when you say that men are late just as often as women. That is a true statement, however, women are usually the ones who take the heat for it so its best if women be good examples to the men by not being late.

      Thank you for your input!

    • SunnyDeigo

      Wow, finally a post from a sane person.

    • andy

      well said!!!! And that is why I only date girls like Alexandra!

    • John

      I believe there is no right or wrong way when it comes to contacting each other. My experience is many women expect the man to make contact most times. However, some relationships are best with other situations regarding contact, it just depends on the individuals and what they want.

  • Anon-

    The person who asked the other on the date should pay for the first one tbh, just if they are paying give them the time of day. seriously the most unattractive thing is games.

    • Casey Slide

      Definitely. It’s sad when people don’t give respect to the one who pays. At least the person paying has the option not to ask the other person out again.

    • SunnyDeigo

      That “whoever asks for the date pays” sounds great in theory but not in practice. The women do not ask men on dates, so they never are obligated to pay. They play little games to get you to ask them out, instead of them asking you out.

  • DP

    I think whether you expect a man to pay and whether the man expects to pay depends on the age of the parties. I’m 50. My generation expect the man to be the man to pay — especially if he’s more financially stabe than me. For those of you men who think that women are cheap and selfish. It depends on the circumstances. It’s not like I never pay for anything. I reciprocate in a myriad of ways. I buy movie tickets when I book the movie, sometimes I pay for drinks, I do the grocery shopping and cook him homemade meals, Also, my dating expenses can end up costing more than the man’s, since I have to buy expensive lingerie and nightgowns. Men easily get away with boxers.

    • Casey Slide

      Thanks, DP! Those are great insights. With every generation, these expectations seem to change. And you are definitely right that women still spend money when dating even if it is not directly for the date.

  • Chambers

    Bad advice Cassie. The man should always pay. Period. Men do not appreciate women who pay. That’s just all there is to it. No man in my family — my father especially — would be happy with the idea of me going out with a man who will not even pay my way.

    • Casey Slide

      It sure would be nice if it did work that way, and I would be all for the man paying, not because I am a woman, but because it is a sign of respect. Most men don’t treat women as they should, and I agree that men do not appreciate women who pay. But as I said, I do think men should pay for the first date, however, in our society, it is up to the couple to decide on how to handle the situation.

      • Supergixxer

        Woman are not children, they are grown adult, some went through grade school, and finish college. They work they pay. Other wise we should not allow woman to work, go to the same high school as boys even enter college. Teach them house chores. then i would happily to pay for her.

        • Casey Slide

          Supergixxer – Being a woman who has been both in the work force and at home doing all of the cooking, cleaning, and child-rearing, I can tell you it is much more difficult and tiring to be at home. That is work, and if it paid, it’d be one of the most high paying jobs in society. Whether it is the man or the woman staying at home, the other spouse needs to support them both emotionally and financially since their work does not provide this.

          I’m unsure of how your comment fits into the conversation about this particular post about dating etiquette, but I’d be happy to discuss your thoughts on the topic.

        • Magic

          quoted “Most women do end up spending money on the relationship”

          That sums up the argument imo.

          Ladies, all that is expected is an offer to help pay, and occasionally follow through with it…

          However, keep in mind – be prepared to pay if you offer ;)

      • SunnyDeigo

        Paying all the time is a sign of stupidity. Most women have careers too and they can help pay for their dining and entertainment. Men paid when women could not pay, back when women were not as educated and/or were homemakers. Now they make money and want to have their entertainment paid for while they squirrel away their own money. That is not caring, sharing or respectful; it’s being a selfish self-centered girl with daddy issues.

        • Casey Slide

          SunnyDiego – I’m sorry you have such a low opinion of women. While there are women who date men just to get free things, there are many more respectable women who want to spend time with a man who respects and honors them. Furthermore, the advice in the article is that a man should pay for the first date or two, not the entire dating relationship. Once the relationship continues to grow, the couple can decide who pays or how to split the bill. Most women do end up spending money on the relationship.

        • John Porter

          “Most men don’t treat women as they should”

          I’m sorry you have such low opinion of men. Hypocrite.

    • E D

      I have never known of a guy who would pay for every date and not expect reciprocity in some kind of way (usually leading to sex). Some men told me they do it because they were taught to do it (but really don’t like to do it), feel that the girl is not financially capable (because she does not make enough money, even though she can still pay for herself, or is trying to make another girl jealous. Chambers, I have no idea how old you are but this day in age a woman should not expect the man to pay for everything, every single time. If you read blogs a lot of men this day in age would not agree with you. If a girl has a man pay for all of the time and they are dating (not an escort) and decide to get married, the girl could have the thought of the husband paying for everything including possible alimony if things don’t go right.

    • Kathleen

      Ladies, this is what is wrong with dating today!!! The men don’t have to stand up and be men!! We allow them to get away with this behavior! If a man asks you out on a date, he pays. Period. If you continue to date him seriously, you can pay every now and then. But seriously–make them ask you out on actual dates (instead of “hanging out”), let them pay, make them open doors for you! These are attributes that you WANT in a husband!!!

      • Casey Slide

        That is an excellent point, Kathleen! It’s important to remember to date someone with attributes you want in a husband. A man that pays for the bill is also a man who will want to provide for his family. A man that expects you to pay the bill will also expect you to provide for the family.

        • Supergixxer

          In a marriage and in a relationship, it is a 50/50 split. Wether the man work and bring the money and woman is a stay at home mother, she better be prepared to cook, clean, take care of the childrens etc. But if a woman work, she must be prepared to contribute to the pay the bills. Nothing is free in life. here is a scenario, if you work and the man work, you going to pocket those money in a separate account? and live off your husband money? That to me a woman is hiding money ready for divorce.

        • Magic

          What a closed minded point of view – of course a man wants to provide for his family, regardless of wanting to share the bill while still dating…

          What has a first date got to do with a family may i ask ?

          If you are thinking of a family on your first date – i think you have got a lot more to worry about than the man paying the bill – really…

        • Mina

          100% true. Look for men who will provide for his wife and kids. Kids need their mother at home and not work full time outside away from them. Kids should not be raised in daycare by strangers. Men need to play their role as father and husband and do their best to provide for their kids and wife.
          Date a man who can pay for your first date. Not men who are looking for sex and want you to pay for your share. These men usually date so many women like 20 or 30 women and have tons of sex because it’s easy and they never have to pay. If they have to pay they won’t be sleeping around. It’s expensive.

          I am a professional woman making over 100,000 a year 5ft3inches 112lb 34c 25 34 not bad looking at all. Many men compliment me and I will never go out with any men/players that don’t want to pay for first date, even if I can pay for myself. I want a man. Not a cheap player. I am looking for potential husband.

        • John

          Not every man that does not pay on the first date is a “cheap player.” Some naive men do not know better, some use it as a filter to exclude gold diggers, some have other reasons. Who pays in itself is not the sole indicator of a good husband or father. But I would say, your listed qualities of income, looks and figure may not be the sole qualities a great husband and father may seek. Character, integrity and loyalty may be of importance, so it just depends on each person.

        • John

          I agree, those attributes in a man would be family oriented. However, I am sure a family oriented man is looking for great qualities of a wife and mother. It seems many forget it goes both ways. There is no talk on this thread of what it takes to be a great wife and mother, but lots on what it takes to be a great family man.

      • Supergixxer

        Only woman does something to deserve it. Nothing fall out of the sky for free. You earn it, by treating us like king and prince and we do the same for you, queen and princess. Love and relationship goes both way. It takes two people to be in a relationship. 50/50 all the way.

      • SunnyDeigo

        Well they are not attributes I would want in a wife. This is 2012 not 1962. Women can share and not be selfish. I stop dating women that play that cheap game.

        • John

          I like your answer and compare it to my concept of some requiring a traditional man when the woman is a modern woman. Either both are traditional, or both are modern might be one way to look at it.

      • Kevin

        are you f’ing serious? if you don’t want to go out on a date with me, you say no. i never allow a woman to pay on the first date but if its a second or third date and you aren’t offering to split the bill, than you’re gone. women are so hypocritical when it comes to this. i respect women as equals, so why is it they don’t want to be equal when it comes to the bill?

    • Kathleen Wilkinson

      Oops–posted twice and can’t figure out how to delete it!

    • Wazza

      lol at this comment …

      i expect a women to offer to help pay – if she does i will not allow her to and then pay myself… i really respect and appreciate a women who is prepared to pay

      learn to support yourself and be independant – be your own person, why do you want to rely on anyone else…?

      sounds like your father is also the kind of man who does not like to see women out of the kitchen either unless he is taking them out …

    • Moro

      You are so wrong and your father is an insecure man that has raise a selfish insecure woman

      • John

        Her admiration of her father is exemplary, no reason for you to be disparaging of her father or her. We can have differing opinions without insult. If you are a father I am sure you would relish the admiration of your daughter.

    • John

      Everyone seems to think there is only one way to do everything, that is not accurate. There are many ways for anything to work. Men can pay, women can pay, each can pay. It just depends on the individuals involved. To say the man must pay each time no matter what COULD create a vulnerable situation in which men are taken advantage. To suggest there are not unscrupulous people in the world would be naive. Even if the man believes he should pay each time, he should require a standard of etiquette from the women in return, as determined by phone conversations or reciprocative actions prior to or during the date.

  • R Murillo212

    I am tired of having dates with women, that all they are looking is a free dinner, and not only
    that but expensive ones.I think on a first date, each one should pay what he or she ordered.
    In my case these are adult women, some actually decide what restaurant, to go to.
    Every time I have suggested we meet for lunch, never, happens, is alwyas for dinner.
    Is time for us men, to revolt. I am convinced, many women that we meet on line, are looking
    to get a free dinner. Not a bad system, if the go out three times a week,,,

    • Casey Slide

      I’m sorry to hear that you are having that type of experience, and I’m sad to hear that there are women that act like that. Perhaps you should only go out with women who agree to meet for lunch or for coffee or for a walk in the park.

    • Asl4unme

      I am sorry about the type of women you seem to have been dating. I do think that a woman should choose a moderately priced restaurant, if the choosing is up to her

      However, I can’t believe that any woman would go through all the “frogs” typically met on dating sites just for a free meal! Typically, dating sites are a “fee for services” venue, and then there’s the expenses of trying to look her best for a date, etc. I think your experience has been with women that don’t show appreciation to their dates, where he is picking up the tab… But, a free meal—that’s just too much work.

      • John

        Consider a broader perspective. There are no shortage of people looking for something to do on a Friday or Saturday night with no intent for anything further. It is quite nice to be wined, dined and shown good time with nothing required in return. If this is something you do not want, filtering is required.

    • John

      Filtering your dates is an important part of finding the right person for you. The world of dating, especially internet dating, is wide open for whatever each person wants. The range of what people in this world want is extremely variable, It is imperative you filter for your specific wants in life. If you seek a modest, ‘low maintenance’ woman, then do things exempt those you do not want. Do not go on first dates that require expensive tastes. Do things that the kind of woman you want would do for low cost. Bike ride, hike, walk in the park, cup of coffee, watch a sunset. If they refuse that, refuse them.

  • Macster2006

    I got screwed. I worked outside the home 40+hrs a week,did all the inside and outside chores and was not allowed to keep anything I worked for all went to running the household. HE kept all his money for himself.!6 yrs of this shit.When he quit his job of 21yrs and laid on the sofa for a yr,I walked out with nothing but the clothes on my back

  • A Charlonya

    I dnt understand why a guy would want a girl to attempt when he’s not gona let her pay anyways??? So why get upset if she don’t when you feel its your responsibility from the beginning ..

    • Casey Slide

      Perhaps the guy would feel as if the girl wasn’t just getting a free meal out of him. It shows also that the woman appreciates the man and the date.

    • Ali

      Because it’s the gesture that counts. Great scene in the movie A Lot Like Love portrays this :)

    • Big Sarge

      That is because you are an idiot. It’s the gesture that counts.

  • Savannah

    I dated a woman for 18 months. She never envited me to lunch, dinner or breakfast. She would not volunteer to cook a meal either. We stopped dining out and other kinds of entertainment because she was too selfish. She lied about not having money, but she would spend money on others at the drop of a dime. I came to the conclusion that she was using me. I gave her nice gifts too. She would always give me cheap inpersoanble gifts. I resent dating her, and I learned to put on the breaks early. This woman was a real dirt bag.

    • Savannah

      Corrections: invited and impersonal.

      • Casey Slide

        Unfortunately some women are like that. Glad to hear you got out of that relationship, and maybe one day she will learn her lesson.

  • DMW

    Question actually: If a man makes in two months what a woman makes in one year, is she still expected to offer to pay for dinner? Especially if he is always in charge and choosing restaurants she cannot afford. And the arguement came up after 18 months of dating.

    • Casey Slide

      That is interesting that the question came up after 18 months of dating. After 18 months, a couple is typically already in a groove and have agreed upon how to deal with paying for dates. It sounds like the couple should just talk it out and figure out what makes sense for them as a couple.

      • DMW

        The financial side of dating has never come up until now and I feel like a total heel. I did some research and discovered that it is very typical for a woman to pay. Been a long time since I dated…. Anyway, how do I bring it up now? He was quite angry about it. I did try to say to him that when he needs and asks for cash I always give it, sometimes it is $100 or more. I have even spent my own money on his family for outings but he was quick to inform me that it was just a drop in the bucket as to what he has spent.

        • datingmath

          If he makes in two months what you make in a year then there are a few ways you could work it out… You can pay for every 7th meal: 2months/12months = .16, 1day/7days = .14 so that’s about equivalent to the salary disparity… but it seems like it would be really awkward to count dates like that forever, you could also just pick one day of the week that is “your day to pay” that might be much easier or I would suggest that he should pay for the meal and you should cover the gratuity! Even though tip is usually 20% you do have some making up to do for the past 18 month free ride ;-)

  • Lovelysweetrose

    If a woman makes LESS income or has less material wealth/assets than the man, I do FIRMLY believe a man should always pay for both himself and his date for the first three dates or more, and the woman should also always offer to pay or open her purse as a gesture, and hopefully met with a “no, thank you, I’ve got this” in response. After the first several dates, I think the woman contributing the tip or around 20% if the man allows this is reasonable; alternatively, she treats him out once in a while to a moderate-expensive meal…

    If the woman makes MORE money than the man (which may or may not be determined in advance or during a course of a date) I think that the bill may be split 50/50 if they so choose, but only if she definitely earns MORE than the man. The reason why I think I woman should not pay more than half on a regular basis if she makes more money, is that maintenance for a woman costs more than maintenance for a man to look great on a date, and it helps a man feel powerful and chivalrous, not disempowered by a strong or successful woman.

    • Jack Johnson

      I know this was 2 years ago but must say I have and will always agree on the maintenance of a woman and thats why the man should pay. It takes a lot of money and time for a woman to get “dolled up”. I the man does not have the means for constatnt dinners than a picnic or just a home night is more then fine after 3-4 dates. If he has the money or not it is in my opinion that spending 200-300.00 for a dinner is just throwing money away. Its nice for the first couple of dates to show her you want to treat her nicely but after that a bucket of chicken by the water is much better and it shows the guy that she really wants to just spend time with him.

      • Ali

        You sound like a really wonderful person. I hope that you find someone who reflects, reciprocates and parallels who you are. You deserve it :)

    • andy

      I was dating a girl that was in school while I was already working. She had a job too at night, but I’m quite sure I made more money. On date 4, she decided to let me know in advance that she is asking me out and she wanted to pay. She took me to a movie, bought popcorn etc. It was so charming, I think i fell in love with her a little after that night. GOD that’s a classy move on her part.

  • JaNay StClair

    I have numerous dates; and I can afford to pay for dinners; however, most men I date always pay for dinner. Why; because men over 45 tend to be established and in a good position. If he’s on a dating site / divorced / etc . More than likely he’s looking to date and has a dating budget. If under 45 [Gen X,Y ]; you probably grew up in a world whereas your parents paid for everything and more than likely you want your date / girlfriend to pick up the tab. New era, I suppose.
    Whether or not the dating scene is changing; people’s perspective of who owes what isn’t. — If the man chooses the restaurant and makes reservations; and goes all out for this date…it’s his night. He was probably going to dine alone anyway; and his expectations weren’t about [finances] they were more about probably having a chance to win someone over or meet something he would be pleased with. — It cost more to gamble at the casino than to have an enjoyable meal with someone…or go out with the guys.

  • Anonymous

    All these assumptions and people getting upset over it! Listen, every person is an individual with different viewpoints and experiences in life. If a man asks a woman on a date, make it clear to her BEFORE you meet what your preferences are. If you prefer to pay, let her know. If she’s not comfortable with that, either discuss it and come to an agreement or don’t go out. If you expect her to pay half, tell her BEFORE she gets all dolled up for you. If she can’t afford to pay anything, offer to go do something free, like a walk in the park. If she refuses, then refer her to your friend who insists on paying for everything on the first date and get the number of the girl who insists on paying her own way. Let go of the resentment! The problem with dating today is ‘EXPECTATIONS’…not everyone is going to think like you do. There is no such thing as “men (or women) need to just make up their minds”. Quit looking for a monolithic, homogenized societal norm that every single person has to adhere to. We have a multitude of communication devises at our disposal and we can’t simply talk to each other. State what you want BEFOREHAND and let go of the “should” mentality. It’s not that hard.

  • Anonymous

    I recently went on a first date with a man who “forgot” his wallet. He asked me out, he picked the restaurant, and I drove an hour and a half to meet him in his town. (Now, before he asked me out, we had talked over the phone a bit and he knew that I was new to the area and hadn’t found a job yet.) He did have the courtesy to tell me immediately that he forgot it, so I suggested a less expensive place to eat. My first instinct was to tell him to go back and get it I’ll wait because I didn’t just drive over a hundred miles to take him out on my unemployed, nonexistent dime…but I held my tongue. He said he found some money in his pockets and console of his car and could cover the first $60. He seemed sincere and that’s the only reason why things continued on. We had a great dinner and found out we had a lot in common, but I ended up pitching in the $20 I had as emergency money for the long trip because he ordered 3 things to my one thing and even though we were sharing the meal, the cost still ran over $60. I felt like he was doing this on purpose…getting the bill over $60 when we could’ve easily eaten for less just to see how I’d handle it. Then again, he might be doing very well and isn’t thinking about my temporary struggle…? I don’t know. We kissed good night and he asked to see me again. So, here’s where I’m a little stuck. Besides the fact that a lot of men are forcing women to pay with the “I forgot my wallet” trick…which is douche-baggery guys…just be honest about not wanting to pay BEFORE you go out. (Read comment below) My indecision about him is the fact that he never offered to help with gas for ‘next time’ and he didn’t offer to cover what I pitched in. The next date he wants to have is for him to cook me dinner at his place…over 100 miles away. I tried twice to get him to come up to my place to cook together, seeing that if he wants the 50/50 treatment, it’s his turn to drive, but he insists I go to him. What are your thoughts? I’m just curious…now that I’ve put it into writing in front of me I have my answer: I’m not going to drive out to see him again until he’s shown some effort by driving up to see me. I’ll also remind him of the fact that until I have a job, I don’t have money to spend on dating…something I told him BEFOREHAND!!!!

    • anon

      Girl….WHO are you fooling? Yourself? This man is NOT worth your time.

    • Jack Johnson

      Yes the ‘forgot my wallet’ is BS. If sincere he would have demanded you take the money from him the next time. Also any good guy would if not come to you the next time would give you money for gas. Now he wants to cook you dinner in his place ? DONT GO ! He just wants to see what he can get away with. Some guys just like to push girls/women to see how far they will go to be with them. Its just an ego trip thing. I could be wrong and maybe he just does not have money also. It depends on your ages, homes and such. First red flag was the no wallet bs but finds 60.00 in his car. Who has 60.00 floating around their car ? Maybe a couple of singles and lots of change but that’s about the norm. Why are you going over 100 miles for a date ? I am 48 and may be an old fool for my thinking and breaking “the man code” but no one should treat another like that and never on a first date to impress night. I would like to tell you about great places to meet people but I am still looking for them myself. Maybe a Church ? The older couples will try to pair up the younger ones…Just a thought. PS- do not take any of my advice because I still do not know what I am doing myself.

      • Jack Johnson

        I did not notice it was 7 months ago. Hope it worked out for you.

      • andy

        Jack’s right, but I have to admit this guy you’re describing sounds like a scrub genius!!! We definitely test girls, mainly to qualify them – an uptight girl will not get very far. HA but this guy, wow! And YOU, 100 miles and paying for stuff? now that’s an impressive woman! What’s your #?

    • John

      Reverse the genders in this story, what would you say if a man had written it? Most would think he is ridiculous, not for driving 100 miles, since some men may do that, but for all the talk on who should have paid. The questions should be; Were they nice? Did you enjoy their company? Did they show a genuine interest in you? Were they respectful? All the advice from the article above.

  • Jack Johnson

    I just read the article on dating and thought of an idea. Would it be a good or bad idea to make a copy of it and send it to your date before the date ? Also I loved what you wrote and must now ask…are you married ?

    • Sandydog


  • Jack Johnson

    I have another question. When going to a nice dinner is it ok for a doggy bag on either side ? A lot of woman do not like to eat in front of guys on the first couple of dates. Is it ok to order a doggy bag so she can Enjoy it later ? I am not a cheap guy but if spending 50-100.00 per plate and just throwing it away seems wasteful to me and must say if she feels it wrong I do not go on another so called date.

    • andy

      $50-$100 per plate?!?!?!

  • andy

    From a guy’s perspective, the last section (etiquette) has some pretty bad advice. FOR INSTANCE
    wrong Don’t Talk About Old Relationships. This is how we learn about you, but keep in mind we are evaluating your personality to see if we want a second date.
    wrong Don’t Dominate the Conversation. Ask questions about us if you’re interested, but it is OKAY to do most of the talking. Again, we asked you out because we’re curious about you and do actually want to learn more about you and most guys are uncomfortable sharing about themselves.
    wrong Don’t Talk About Marriage or Children. this is actually OK advice, depending on your motives. and good advice perhaps maybe if your date is very young. if he’s older than 30, marriage talk is okay even though he may not be interested in marrying or even thinking about it, but you won’t scare him away by talking about it. well, children maybe, that’s always a scary topic. but an older guy will not sleep with you if your values are different, and it’s important he knows this. better to scare him away, then trick him into seeing you again.
    maybe wrong Don’t Drink Too Much. This is more for you than him. Guys like fun girls, period. The more drunk you are, usually the more fun you are.
    wrong Don’t Chase Him. WRONG! IF a girl is not doing some level of chasing, a confident guy with options is not going to respond well. You need to chase him to a point of meeting him AT LEAST half way. Keep in mind, if he is a quality guy, he has other girls chasing him too – and the one that gets our attention wins. That’s the reality of it. So if you want him, take a risk, better to try and be rejected than lose to another girl because you didn’t try at all.

    maybe wrong End the Date if Necessary. This is actually good advice, but keep in mind you probably won’t get a second date. but you may not want one if you’re bored enough to end the first date.

    • Sandydog

      RFLMAO ;)

    • Leifer

      These are your opinions/beliefs. I happen to disagree with you. I don’t have to hear stories about past relationships in order to get to know a woman’s personality. Both sides ought to be curious about each other. Having a woman talk about herself is fine as we are both trying to get to know each other. What I do not like is endless talk where they just want you to listen and take no interest in asking anything or not responding when I do talk about myself. I as a guy, is comfortable talking about myself if I feel the woman is truly interested and respective of what I have to share. Responding with judgments and endless advice does not honor achieve that.

    • John

      Having dated extensively for 18 years, the above post from andy is ridiculous, disregard it completely.

      • Anonymous

        No offense John, but seeing you type “I have dated extensively for 18 years” does not give the impression of a successful person who knows who to give the best advice to those of us who are actively dating. It sounds like you have struggled and perhaps have not found the correct way to look at the dating scene… as 18 years later you are still alone.

        • John

          Divorce laws have created a profit business for women after a few short years. Maybe you have no assets or income to lose, I do and prefer to date.

  • connie

    If a woman has the good fortune to have two fellows asking her out, is it appropriate to date them both?

    • John

      The answer is most often yes, it is acceptable to date more than one man platonically, but do not talk about it to either of them. If asked, do not lie, but do not answer. As long as you act like a chaste lady with them, they should believe you act the same with the other man if they suspect you are dating another. If your intentions change to a relationship towards one, give up the other.


    the guy should pay

  • John

    This was all great advice!!! I have been single again for 18 years and have dated extensively. The final word of respect was the most relevant. It is amazing how many lack consideration or are clearly taking advantage of men. If you seek a quality relationship you must be a quality person, this advice can help get you there. Most marriage minded men are seeking someone sincerely nice, which means cares about others. For internet dating consider adding a short casual first date that does not involve dinner since most will not be a match. Reasons I would not ask for a second date: #1 late, #2 does not reach for purse as a gesture to pay, #3 does not thank me for the dinner, (a follow up thank you within a day or so is even better), #4 Dominates the conversation. Number one reason I would chase a woman, she is nice.

    • John

      Should have added, men are expected to pay, period. However, men should have an expectation of the woman to make the dinner date go well in appreciation for his effort. That means following the above advice! Failure of the woman to do so shows a lack of appreciation for the man’s efforts and he should not ask her on another date!

  • Tyrowe John Alarcon

    I can relate to this though i am gay (this is also applicable to gay men). Such a brilliant advice :) thanks so much.. A guy friend of mine is asking me again for a date.. 2nd time.. Really hoping it will go well :)